The Back Alley Archives

Actually, jackass, I was a virgin for the entire year of 1998.

AA, BG and I always intended to have the same expections regarding sex for boys and girls. We won't have a chance to have a female child now, but neither of us are fans of gender-based double standards. We don't want to raise a child, girl or boy, who is thoughtless about anything important, including sex.

^^Thoughtfulness is one of the fundamental values kids need to be taught, IMO.

What I'm saying is that all those brunts are avoidable with either (1) some form of birth control or (2) an abortion.

I had an inclination your religious views play into this, and they should...they are obviously fundamental principles for you and your family. I can see why it would be more difficult for you to support the message that sex is OK if it's responsible. There are more guidelines that you believe in and use to raise your kids.

I just know it seems pretty easy (to me) to grow up in a more open household (where your parents will provide birth control if necessary) and succeed in life without a teenage pregnancy. My two brothers and I are a testament to that.

yeah but you've not had sex since 1998 [img]{SMILIES_PATH}/popcorn1.gif[/img]

Jill and Hangela don't count.

The only "brunt of those bad decisions" I can think of that can't be easily avoided/solved is the decision whether to have an abortion. I can understand wanting to protect someone from that decision I guess, because it seems to be a tough thing for some (maybe many or most? I don't know) women who go through it.

Most, if not all...

I've known several women who seemed to not struggle with the decision or regret it afterward. They were thoughtful women who simply didn't see anything wrong with it...at that point the practicality of it, I think, can preclude such women from attaching much emotion to the decision.

Yet again, I'm running my mouth about something I have no personal knowledge of.

Hmmm...I don't see how they didn't have any feelings of regret afterward. They might not have shown it (I suppose that's why you included "seemed"), but being thoughtful women, I would hope it affected them. I'm just drawing from the discussions I've had with close friends who have aborted pregnancies. If they viewed it in the same light as having warts removed, our friendships would be over.

Do you think any of the women you've known who aborted a pregnancy would abort a 2nd pregnancy given similar circumstances? Despite their feelings of regret? Or do you think they would decide against abortion the 2nd time?

I ask because the friends I'm speaking of, I would absolutely expect them to abort a 2nd pregnancy given similar circumstances.

that's the thing about abortion....in your view, it's a form of contraception....tsifu.

I have a friend (a girl that I grew up with) who had an abortion in high school. It deeply affected her. However, many years later, I found out that she had another abortion when she was VERY young...like 13-14. It was a date rape kind of thing...sort of. Basically, her boyfriend at the time forced himself on her and at that age, she really didn't know what to do. The girl has had so many issues and I've totally lost track of her. While obviously, it was not only the abortions, but it can really screw up a person and their ability to form meaningful relationships.

She got married young to a great, kind and wonderful guy. But of course, she ruined that relationship because basically because he was too nice...he didn't put her on the emotional roller coaster she was used to...and she left him (and their son...although she had joint custody so she didn't desert her son). But after that, we really just didn't connect anymore...I was a newly single mom when this went down and I remember thinking I would have given anything for a man like her husband...it put me off that she was willing to give that up, just so she could try to relive her youth.

Sorry...done babbling.

that's the thing about abortion....in your view, it's a form of contraception....tsifu.

well...at its core, isn't a form of contraception? Prevents someone from having a child, right?

Right here it where the thread is really going to take a turn for the worst. I can't wait. [img]{SMILIES_PATH}/popcorn1.gif[/img]

Yeah, I'm thinking it's about time for Miley Cyrus to put up some new pics on her MySpace.

that's the thing about abortion....in your view, it's a form of contraception....tsifu.

Demonize abortion all you want, but it's impossible for abortion and contraception to ever occupy the same logical space because they are obviously distinct. Nice propaganda though...just sayin...contraception prevents her from getting pregnant...abortion just happens to be the most practical solution for many women who don't want to reorder the values and priorities of their entire life when we have the technology to control such things. They both result in the woman not bearing a child, but that in no way means they are the same.

One of the friends I mentioned earlier who didn't seem to regret her decision to have an abortion now has multiple graduate degrees and basically all of her life goals are within reach. You really think it was her responsibility to give up her life as she knew it because of a mistake?

I mean, the human race isn't going extinct anytime soon. We have enough time to let someone else get pregnant. Now, if the species were going extinct, then I could understand your problem with abortion maybe. Maybe it's the religious aspect that confuses me, I dunno.

well that's the matter with society these days...abortion shouldn't be considered as a form of contraception...all too often, young people think they can do whatever they want because a) they're entitled to make mistakes b) they can fix things.

"oh shoot....i got pregnant again....no worries mate! let's get another abortion so we as to not get derailed from getting those multiple graduate degrees :thumbsup!:"

i got news for ya AA...if someone has multiple abortions, they're using abortion as a form of contraception (spare the tragic case of rape)

Do you think any of the women you've known who aborted a pregnancy would abort a 2nd pregnancy given similar circumstances? Despite their feelings of regret? Or do you think they would decide against abortion the 2nd time?

I ask because the friends I'm speaking of, I would absolutely expect them to abort a 2nd pregnancy given similar circumstances.

No. In one case, I know for a fact she wouldn't (obviously meaning that she gave birth).

My best friend and ex-girlfriend had a second abortion, and she felt (still struggles with it, actually) just as bad as she did the first time. I lost some respect for her, but not much given the circumstances (which I won't get into) surrounding both abortions.

I just realized that it seems like I know a lot of girls who have aborted a pregnancy. I suppose I do, but you'd be surprised by how many women have done it...you just don't usually hear about it because an abortion is not something to be proud of. Thankfully, I've never been in that situation...if I were, there's no question that I'd want to keep the baby. Is there anything a guy can do if he wants to keep the baby, but the girl wants to have an abortion?

i know women who've had multiple abortions and have had massive issues trying to conceive on purpose....karma is a MF biats!

Unless she's judged mentally incompetent or something, I would think the decision is legally hers and hers alone. But I'm not an expert on abortion law.

Unless she's judged mentally incompetent or something, I would think the decision is legally hers and hers alone. But I'm not an expert on abortion law.

I believe you to be correct which is the one problem I have with the whole issue. I'm pro-choice, but I believe that (barring a medical issue, or the case of rape), if both parents don't consent to the abortion then there shouldn't be one.

and at the end of the day, i'm not supportive of ruining a young womans life because she had a moment of lapse of judgment and by having a baby, she will more than likely have to live a hard life as a result instead of this promising career path she was cruising towards just because i've got the view i have on abortion...everyone's gotta do what they gotta do at the end of the day...i just don't like the idea of some throwing caution to the wind because they can 'fix it' if the shit hits the fan...THAT'S mf bullshit right there....obviously you're free to do whatever the fuck you like...you wanna get 50 abortions, go right ahead....it's a free world.

well that's the matter with society these days...abortion shouldn't be considered as a form of contraception...all too often, young people think they can do whatever they want because a) they're entitled to make mistakes b) they can fix things.

"oh shoot....i got pregnant again....no worries mate! let's get another abortion so we as to not get derailed from getting those multiple graduate degrees :thumbsup!:"

i got news for ya AA...if someone has multiple abortions, they're using abortion as a form of contraception (spare the tragic case of rape)

It's not abortion's fault young people are stupid. The stupidity of people doesn't determine whether something is right or wrong. That's too simplistic a way to look at it, IMO, because it's like accepting that we can't do better so we just have to play defense and protect everyone as much as possible. Why not just teach kids the right way to think?

The entitlement to make mistakes and the ability to fix those mistakes are freedoms that come with responsibility, like everything else. They come with the responsibility that young people do their best to make good choices and avoid mistakes while acting to minimize unintended negative consequences. And I think that if someone makes a good faith effort to live up to those responsibilities then it's unfair of me as a person to say they are wrong for wanting to or choosing to avoid unintended consequences.

and at the end of the day, i'm not supportive of ruining a young womans life because she had a moment of lapse of judgment

Yea, I know...we're just approaching it from two different views, like always. It's all good bro...I get why you feel the way you do...we're just worried about the effects abortion has on different groups of people...you're thinking big picture, total societal effects given the way people are...I'm thinking what it means to the woman who wouldn't be able to make the choice if we decided the practical effects of abortion outweigh that personal freedom.

I can't believe this.

You all voted overwhelmingly against a political forum and now you're discussing abortion, THE hot-button political topic of our era.

You all suck.

[img]{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lmao.gif[/img] With that I'm off to Salty Dog.

I can't believe this.

You all voted overwhelmingly against a political forum and now you're discussing abortion, THE hot-button political topic of our era.

You all suck.

:lmao: But that's why Doc...they'd rather just get it all out in the TSIFU forum...TSIFU btw.

This thread is so quaint, five years later.