Trayvon Martin

radbag · Post by **radbag** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 2:49 pm

[quote=UFgirlfan07]Sorry, but I don't think he should have been IN his car following him in the first place - neighborhood watch or not.[/QUOTE]
i'm with her

IHateUGAlyDawgs · Post by **IHateUGAlyDawgs** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 3:32 pm

[quote=radbag]i'm with her[/QUOTE]

What is neighborhood watch supposed to do, then?

IHateUGAlyDawgs · Post by **IHateUGAlyDawgs** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 3:32 pm

Regardless of whether you like him IN the car or not, there is nothing illegal about that.

THEBIGFISH55 · Post by **THEBIGFISH55** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 3:56 pm

He put himself in the situation....if he were afriad for his life then the threat is eliminated once the kid takes off running away from him....and I certainly wouldn't have left the relative safety of my car if I were scared the kid was gonna hurt me....

THEBIGFISH55 · Post by **THEBIGFISH55** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 3:57 pm

I see what you're saying though...

IHateUGAlyDawgs · Post by **IHateUGAlyDawgs** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 4:00 pm

[quote=THEBIGFISH55]He put himself in the situation....if he were afriad for his life then the threat is eliminated once the kid takes off running away from him....and I certainly wouldn't have left the relative safety of my car if I were scared the kid was gonna hurt me....[/QUOTE]

problem with what you're saying - that's not Zimmerman's story.

IHateUGAlyDawgs · Post by **IHateUGAlyDawgs** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 4:02 pm

Update...apparently some numbnuts can't accept what has (or hasn't) happened in the investigation, so the Chief of Police is being made the scapegoat.

This kind of overreaction is what gets us into trouble.

Sanford, FL (CNN) -- March 22, 2012 --

Sanford Police Chief Bill Lee said he must "temporarily remove myself" from duty, a day after the City Commission voted 3-2 in favor of a nonbinding measure of no confidence in him.

"My role as the leader of this agency has become a distraction from the investigation …." Lee said during a news conference.

Lee had come under fire following concerns that his police department did not adequately handle the fatal shooting last month of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin.

Martin was shot February 26 while walking to the house of his father's fiancee after a trip to a convenience store. George Zimmerman, a neighborhood watch leader, said he shot the unarmed 17-year-old in self-defense.

Following the shooting, thousands of people tweeted out Lee's photo and phone number asking them to flood him with calls because they believed his department had not properly investigated the case. Many of those people believed Zimmerman should have been arrested for the shooting.

"It is apparent that my involvement in this matter is overshadowing the process," Lee said.

Zimmerman has not been arrested. Police say they have not charged Zimmerman because they have no evidence to contradict his story that he shot in self-defense, leading to a new debate over a controversial state law.

Florida's deadly force law, also called "stand your ground," allows people to meet "force with force" if they believe that there is danger of serious harm to themselves or someone else.

Lee said he continued to stand by the police department as well as their investigation into Martin's death.

A Seminole County grand jury will convene on the matter April 10, according to State Attorney Norm Wolfinger.

radbag · Post by **radbag** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 4:03 pm

[quote=IHateUGAlyDawgs]What is neighborhood watch supposed to do, then?[/QUOTE]

they're supposed to watch...not shoot

IHateUGAlyDawgs · Post by **IHateUGAlyDawgs** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 4:04 pm

[quote=radbag]they're supposed to watch...not shoot[/QUOTE]

Not what I was responding to...the statement was - she didn't want him in the car following him.

radbag · Post by **radbag** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 4:08 pm

neighborhood watch is supposed to observe and report back to the authorities their observations and then listen to instruction

seriously - just lock the guy up for stupidity and lets stop trying to defend him with lawyer jib-jab...the less stupid people on the streets, the better for everyone

IHateUGAlyDawgs · Post by **IHateUGAlyDawgs** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 4:14 pm

[quote=radbag]neighborhood watch is supposed to observe and report back to the authorities their observations and then listen to instruction

seriously - just lock the guy up for stupidity and lets stop trying to defend him with lawyer jib-jab...the less stupid people on the streets, the better for everyone[/QUOTE]

If you'll get defense attorneys, judges, and appellate judges out of the way, rad...I could lock a lot more guilty people up. Until then, we have to play with the cards we're dealt.

UFgirlfan07 · Post by **UFgirlfan07** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 5:18 pm

[quote=IHateUGAlyDawgs]What is neighborhood watch supposed to do, then?[/QUOTE]

WATCH! Joey and another guy in our neighborhood are our neighborhood watch guys, and neither of them go chasing after strangers in their cars with guns. If we see something weird, we call the sheriff's office. That's about as far as it goes on our end.

IHateUGAlyDawgs · Post by **IHateUGAlyDawgs** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 6:11 pm

I'm not disagreeing that he was over zealous. However, that is not a presumption of guilt that you can base an arrest for murder on

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THEBIGFISH55 · Post by **THEBIGFISH55** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 7:13 pm

Freaking lawyers...haha

UFgirlfan07 · Post by **UFgirlfan07** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 7:20 pm

[quote=THEBIGFISH55]Freaking lawyers...haha[/QUOTE]

Yeah dat ^^^

radbag · Post by **radbag** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 8:55 pm

[quote=IHateUGAlyDawgs]I'm not disagreeing that he was over zealous. However, that is not a presumption of guilt that you can base an arrest for murder on

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Arrest him on stupidity....or impersonating an officer of the law....or impersonating wyatt Earp or some stupid shit.

IHateUGAlyDawgs · Post by **IHateUGAlyDawgs** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:42 pm

I'm not trying to defend the guy...but everyone is up in arms about why an arrest hasn't been made...now you know. Nobody in law enforcement is playing favorites

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DocZaius · Post by **DocZaius** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:08 am

Things are a bit more complicated. Here is a copy of the partial police report:

http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/ ... Report.pdf

Noteworthy facts:

When the cops showed up, Zimmerman was bleeding from the nose and the back of the head.
Zimmerman's back was wet and covered in grass.
Travyon Martin was 6'0" and 160 pounds, not as small as some media reports have been making him out to be - Zimmerman is listed at 5'9" with no weight listed (although from the media, we see he's a pretty hefty guy).

The media has reported that at least one witness saw Martin on top of Zimmerman. Furthermore, the Sanford police have also claimed that Martin's father told them that the voice calling for help on the 911 tape was NOT Martin's - it was Zimmerman's. See here: http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justice/20 ... t/(page)/2

The physical evidence certainly suggests that Martin got the best of Zimmerman in the confrontation. Let's assume for the moment that Martin has Zimmerman pinned down and is beating the shit out of him. Zimmerman is calling for help, but there is no help to be had. What should Zimmerman have done then?

Question for you, Hater: under the law, the police can't arrest the guy if they can't disprove Zimmerman's self-defense claim. But what is the burden, then, at the grand jury stage? Does the prosecutor have to present the self-defense case to the grand jury and then disprove it?

DocZaius · Post by **DocZaius** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 1:07 pm

DocZaius · Post by **DocZaius** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 1:35 pm

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/nation ... full.story

South Florida Sun-Sentinel.com

Trayvon Martin shooting: George Zimmerman says Trayvon decked him, then began hammering his head, police say

Miami teen was suspended from school after being found with empty marijuana baggie

By Rene Stutzman, Orlando Sentinel
2:12 PM EDT, March 26, 2012
With a single punch, Trayvon Martin decked the Neighborhood Watch volunteer who eventually shot and killed the unarmed 17-year-old, then Trayvon climbed on top of George Zimmerman and slammed his head into the sidewalk several times, leaving him bloody and battered, authorities have revealed to the Orlando Sentinel.

That is the account Zimmerman gave police, and much of it has been corroborated by witnesses, authorities say.

Zimmerman has not spoken publicly about what happened, but that night, Feb. 26, and in later meetings he described and re-enacted for police what he says happened.

In his version of events, he had turned around and was walking back to his SUV when Trayvon approached him from behind, the two exchanged words then Trayvon punched him in the nose, sending him to the ground, and began beating him.

Zimmerman told police he shot the teenager in self-defense.

Civil rights leaders and thousands of others have demanded Zimmerman's arrest, calling Trayvon a victim of racial profiling and Zimmerman a vigilante.
Trayvon was an unarmed black teenager who had committed no crime, they say, who was gunned down while walking back from a 7-Eleven with nothing more sinister than a package of Skittles and can of Arizona iced tea.

Supporters have held rallies in Sanford, Miami, New York and Tallahassee, calling the case a tragic miscarriage of injustice.

Activist Al Sharpton headlined a rally in Sanford Thursday that drew an estimated 8,000 people. The Rev. Jesse Jackson yesterday spoke at an Eatonville church, where he called Trayvon a martyr.

Another rally is scheduled for 4 p.m. today in Sanford.

Zimmerman has gone into hiding. A fringe group, the New Black Panthers, have offered a $10,000 reward for his capture.

Police have been reluctant to provided details about all their evidence, but this is what they've disclosed to the Sentinel:

Zimmerman was on his way to the grocery store when he spotted Trayvon walking through his gated community.

Trayvon was visiting his father's fiancée, who lived there. He had been suspended from school in Miami after being found with an empty marijuana baggie. Miami schools have a zero-tolerance policy for drug possession.

Zimmerman called police and reported a suspicious person, describing Trayvon as black, acting strangely and perhaps on drugs.

Zimmerman got out of his SUV to follow Trayvon on foot. When a dispatch employee asked Zimmerman if he was following the 17-year-old, Zimmerman said yes. The dispatcher told Zimmerman he did not need to do that.

There is about a one-minute gap during which police say they're not sure what happened.

Zimmerman told them he lost sight of Trayvon and was walking back to his SUV when Trayvon approached him from the left rear, and they exchanged words.
Trayvon asked Zimmerman if he had a problem. Zimmerman said no and reached for his cell phone, he told police.

Trayvon then said, "Well, you do now" or something similar and punched Zimmerman in the nose.

Zimmerman fell to the ground and Trayvon got on top of him and began slamming his head into the sidewalk, he told police.
Zimmerman began yelling for help.

Several witnesses heard those cries, and there's been a dispute about from whom they came: Zimmerman or Trayvon.

Lawyers for Trayvon's family say it was Trayvon, but police say their evidence indicates it was Zimmerman.

One witnesses, who has since talked to local television news reporters, told police he saw Zimmerman on the ground with Trayvon on top, pounding him and was unequivocal that it was Zimmerman who was crying for help.

Zimmerman then shot Trayvon once in the chest from very close range, according to authorities.

When police arrived less than two minutes later, Zimmerman was bleeding from the nose, had a swollen lip and had bloody lacerations to the back of his head.

Paramedics gave him first aid, but he said no to going to the hospital. He got medical care the next day.

The Department of Justice last week opened a civil rights investigation into what happened, and Gov. Rick Scott appointed a special prosecutor.

It's not clear whether the special prosecutor, Angela Corey, the state attorney for Duval, Clay and Nassau counties, will have Zimmerman arrested, announce that there's not enough evidence to file a manslaughter charge or present evidence to a grand jury.

[email protected] or 407-650-6394.
Copyright © 2012, Orlando Sentinel

What if Zimmerman is telling the truth?

IHateUGAlyDawgs · Post by **IHateUGAlyDawgs** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:57 pm

[quote=DocZaius]

Question for you, Hater: under the law, the police can't arrest the guy if they can't disprove Zimmerman's self-defense claim. But what is the burden, then, at the grand jury stage? Does the prosecutor have to present the self-defense case to the grand jury and then disprove it?[/QUOTE]

I think the prosecutor would be doing him/herself a disservice (along with everybody else) to ignore the self-defense claim at the grand jury stage. The grand jury is supposed to look at all of the evidence and decide if there is enough to go forward w/ an indictment and trial. If the prosecutor does not present the self-defense claim, then surely the grand jury will come back with a true bill and the prosecution (and public) has a false sense of the strength of the case.

IHateUGAlyDawgs · Post by **IHateUGAlyDawgs** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:00 pm

[quote=DocZaius]
What if Zimmerman is telling the truth? [/QUOTE]

Well, then everyone calling for his head and talking about how embarrassed they are by this state and its law enforcement would have to eat crow and admit their own over zealousness...but I wouldn't hold my breath for that.

radbag · Post by **radbag** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 6:03 pm

if he's telling the truth, then he's still guilty for being as stupid as a bag of rocks for not understanding instruction given to him by law enforcement...defense will claim he is legally deaf in one ear...public will ask if he is so, then why did he use that deaf ear to talk on the phone with...defense will claim he has carpel-tunnel on his left hand and can therefore not operate a phone...public will ask why he didn't use the speaker function...

we can go round and round but ultimately - it's his stupidity, or lack of understanding of english, or lack of capability in taking direction, or lack of understanding that he is not really wyatt earp (all great traits and qualities one would need to have to be a volunteer watchdog....who ever approved a person like this to be given the responsibilities to watch over a community should be brought in to) that he should answer to ... cops told him to stick behind and directed him not to follow and a death occurred as a result of his disregard...for that he should be punished.

UFgirlfan07 · Post by **UFgirlfan07** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:49 pm

I'm still with crazy-ass radbag on this one.

IHateUGAlyDawgs · Post by **IHateUGAlyDawgs** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:55 pm

Rad, frankly, that is absurd. A dispatcher, 9 times out of 10, is not a cop, so we can stop saying he was disobeying a police officers command...on top of that, it can hardly be considered a command at all.

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